Chemo Break – Recuperation

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  • #83883
    lainy
    Spectator

    It sounds like you have a good and large team….Team Pete! Of course we hope they have had quite a bit of experience with CC. Pete got double slammed and I know it is hard enough with just one hit. Believe me I know just how you feel. Even though Teddy and I were only married 16 short years he was my knight in shining armor! I think I see lately where I put the thoughts of his not being here way to the back and maybe that is a good thing because we have enough on our minds just caring. I wouldn’t let anyone else help, it had to be me. Oh, not to be funny but now I know why he always used to sing “It Had To Be You” to me. We got through it all with a lot of humor but it still pays its toll on the care taker. We are here for you, as Gavin says, so use us! We don’t use up easily!

    #83882
    janbee
    Member

    Thank you, again to both of you.It is hard to be the caregiver when I am watching the person dearest to me in decline, but still I want to be the one to care for him. I have a hard time imagining my life without him after 40+ years so I just avoid going there. I know that I want to survive in good health to be a help to my daughter who is considering expanding her family. There will still be joys after this to experience I keep telling myself.

    @ Lainy: We are having different aspects of Pete’s care in different hospitals. The liver specialists and surgeons were at Seattle Virginia Mason. The hospitalizations for infection were at St. Francis and St. Joseph in Federal Way and Tacoma, WA. His main doctors (primary care, GI, oncology) are Group Health physicians. I found them willing to provide referrals for second opinions outside of Group Health and to be available for calls. When Pete was receiving chemo, the staff at the Seattle Group Health Chemo Infusion without exception were kind and competent. My concern throughout all of this is that Pete’s illness is really two serious health issues layered one on top another. Both of these (PSC and CC) are serious and unusual to the point that even mature, experienced physicians may not deal with them very often. Within this system all the docs have access to the computer with their combined care reports/notations, CT scans and labs. I think that helps.

    #83881
    gavin
    Moderator

    Hi Jan,

    Thanks for the explanation of what happened with the stenting procedure. I’m glad that the doctor who did the work spent all of that time with you explaining what happened and what they could and couldn’t do, and sorry to hear that they are not able to get better drainage.

    That sounds like a good idea the not giving Pete too much fat in his diet just now. What my dads GI guy said was to eat foods that are easily broken down as that would help with digestion and everything.

    I hear what you are saying about respecting Pete’s wishes on hospice and everything to do with that, but you are so right about what you say about overriding these should the situation arise tha you can’t give him the care that he needs later on. It’s not easy being a carer isn’t it. I was my dads carer during his fight with CC and am still my mums carer now, and I can tell you that you are doing a great job here and also doing everything that you can for Pete.

    Please know that we’re all here for you too. Shout, scream and vent away if it helps, we’ve been there and know what you’re going through right now.

    My best to you and Pete,

    Gavin

    #83880
    lainy
    Spectator

    Dear JanBee, sounds like a plan. I forgot to mention that here in Phoenix, Hospice will come in for up to a year. If I may just make a suggestion…..I would see if you have another Hospice and just plan ahead without Pete knowing so that you are ready to jump in when needed. Being a Care Giver is not the job anyone really wants, so please be kind to JanBee as well. Also when you have time please keep us posted. BTW can you tell us in which hospital Pete is being treated? Best of luck!

    #83879
    janbee
    Member

    Gavin and Lainy, thank you so much for your perspectives. It’s very helpful to me to consider all of what you are saying. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed, so having discussion helps me think through.

    @ Gavin: The problem with the stent as explained to me at time of insertion is that the ducts (including the small branched ducts that drain into the larger ducts) are heavily scarred and closed off making good drainage impossible. During the stenting procedure, they worked on him for over an hour to get the best placement possible. I was advised at that time that they had achieved limited success which was the minimal allowable to start chemo. The doctor who did the work specializes in liver surgery and is highly experienced and regarded. He spent some time with us following the surgery drawing pictures and explaining the complications caused by the PSC in detail. I believe he did his best in a difficult situation. I am careful not to give Pete any high fat nutrition that would cause problems.

    Pete is a quiet and very private person. I told him I would respect his wishes and not push for immediate hospice care, but if his health reaches a point where I am unable to effectively provide him with very good care then I will override his objections and call them in. Although Pete has the hard part of this journey, I am with him on it, and I will need some consideration from him as well.

    #83878
    gavin
    Moderator

    Dear Jan,

    I am sorry to hear this update on how Pete is doing. My dad went through pretty much the same that you describe about Pete’ s condition and I so know how hard this is to deal with. I agree with Lainy that it is very strange indeed what they say about no antibiotics at this point for Pete and I would certainly be questiong that one. My dad went through hospice care and I have nothing but good things to say about the care that he got from them, nothin was too much trouble for them.

    It sounds to me like the metal stent that Pete has is not working as it should hence the jaundice. It could well be clogged and this can perhaps be cleaned, maybe that is something that you could discuss with the docs? Certainly if it can be unclogged then Pete should feel a lot better.

    I can understand the fear that Pete has in calling in hospice and all of that, but perhaps you could explain to him that hospice’s main goal is to keep him as comfortable as possible and that they are very good at that. Pain management is very important and again, hospice are very good at that too.

    Please know that we are all here for you so keep coming back and let us know how everything goes. You are not alone here, we are here with you.

    Hugs,

    Gavin

    #83877
    lainy
    Spectator

    Thank you for explaining all that. I have 2 comments. IF Pete is not happy having Hospice you can let them go, they do not intrude at all. I hope he is not in pain but you need to know that Hospice main job is to keep him comfortable and the longer he waits the longer it is going to take to get what ever ails him under control. Wishing you both the best,

    #83876
    janbee
    Member

    Hi Lainy. I appreciate your thoughts. I was surprised with the response from hospice regarding the antibiotics. I have a call in to Pete’s regular doctor to discuss. It seems to me that if taking antibiotics holds off the sepsis, he should be encouraged to continue. I talked to a nurse in the office who says there is a “gray” area concerning treatments that are for the purpose of prolonging life. It looks as if they are thinking that antibiotic treatment continues to place us in the palliative care category even though there is nothing to prohibit the cancer progression. That may be correct. I believe that I can make a case for Pete to receive hospice care; however Pete is concerned about the intrusion of hospice care in his life. Have decided I’m not going to really push for it until he accepts it.

    In regards to the oncologist, I do believe she is not holding out any hope for long-term survival. Looking at the medical evidence (not as a medical professional myself) it looks as though she is being realistic with us considering the current situation. At each of his hospitalizations we had GI and Oncologist Docs included in the treatment teams. I understand when a physician provides a referral to hospice services within our system, it is their belief that the patient is ill with a terminal illness, and they estimate the patient will likely need care for no more than six months. Pete had a metal stent placed in February which did help some, and he has had numerous CT scans and lab tests to track his condition. With the PSC disease underlying, the liver ducts are so damaged that good drainage is not possible in his case because the biliary tract is fairly obliterated by fibrosis and scarring.

    I am making sure that Pete has antibiotics, pain medication and the best nutrition that I can get into him. We will be seeing the Oncologist again in a few weeks.

    #83875
    lainy
    Spectator

    Dearest JanBee, so sorry about your update. I have NEVER heard of Hospice saying that about Antibiotics. How strange. Is that the only one you can call? Not sure I am comfortable with their attitude. My next question is, has Pete ever had stents put in for the Jaundice. They will open the bile ducts right away and the Jaundice will leave. Last question is, can you go for a second opinion. I think it is imperative at this point. How can an ONC just sound like they are washing their hands of things that can be controlled. The first thing that has to be fixed is the jaundice and the rest like swollen legs, infections may all get better. Please let us know if he is stented and please see about a 2nd opinion.
    Hospice is terrific. A lot of people who were afraid of it were glad they got it. I had ordered a hospital bed for Teddy, a walker and a wheel chair. I set it all up in the bright living room where the BIG TV was and it was also comfortable for visitors. We were so glad to have it and he loved Hospice at home. I don’t want to worry you but I have to be honest and I am really worried about the lack of action on the part of the ONC. Please let us know what happens. P.S. It may help to let hubby know in a kind way that you are now calling the shots and that you need Hospice to help you!

    #83874
    janbee
    Member

    We have been busy going down a long road since my last post. Pete was hospitalized twice with sepsis. Both times after 4 days of IV antibiotics his fever went down and he was discharged. At our follow-up appointment with his Oncologist, she advised us that Pete is too frail to continue chemo. In my heart I already knew that. Pete was relieved not to be going back for treatments. Now every time we see a Dr. they attempt to set us up with hospice care. Pete says he’s not ready for that yet. Hospice says that taking antibiotics is contrary to the goals of hospice. I don’t see why. I haven’t fully figured out the role of hospice.

    Pete has 2 major illnesses. PSC (a pretty advanced case) and CCA. When I read the symptoms of advanced liver disease, that sounds just like Pete with PSC. Is advanced CCA the same? At any rate, he is on oral antibiotics for infection – the same ones that he took for infections before the CCA. It’s holding off the sepsis, but he still gets low grade fevers (up to 100.5). I wonder if the low fevers are caused by the CCA. His skin is yellow and labs are bad, his abdomen and legs are very swollen, he has very little appetite and some days he sleeps most of the time. He is understandably impatient and depressed. It’s frustrating that I can do little for him. We are both just continuing day by day. I used to wake up with the promise that every day had the possibility to be a good day. Now I wake up and just hope we can get through that day, but he expresses frustration at where he is. Perhaps it’s a blessing that we can’t see all that lies ahead.

    #83873
    marions
    Moderator

    Jan……you said it well. When cancer strikes patients loose control – over their bodies – and they must be allowed to control what is controllable and count on the support of their loved ones. Clearly you are doing just that. It sounds hopeful that already you noticing a change in your husband’s well being – he is sleeping less and appears to be regaining some energy. Stay strong, dear Jan.
    Hugs,
    Marion

    #83872
    janbee
    Member

    I appreciate all of this input. It’s worrisome at this point because we started down the chemo pathway with a degree of optimism.

    The more I read and hear, the more I realize as Melinda has said, this experience is unique to each individual. I see that what is helpful and tolerated for one person, may not be helpful at all and even may be harmful to another. At this time I have no idea if this break will provide him some rebound or not. His Onc did say that if he chooses to continue this chemo, he will feel sick the rest of his life. That info went right over his head. I know he’s just not ready to hear that just yet, but he will understand in his own time. Everything in me hopes that there might still be a way to get him some regained health, but I will respect his decisions if continuing treatment is too much for him.

    Meantime, I’m doing everything I can to help build him back up. I’m glad that he has gotten past the part of chemo that made him 24 x 7 exhausted and continuously napping, and am seeing a little more up and around for short times with energy. I’ll take that for now and hope for better later. :)

    #83871
    mbachini
    Moderator

    Jan,

    I agree with Marion…it ultimately comes down to chemo benefits vs. quality of life. We all handle it differently. After two years of chemo treatment, I chose quality of life and by the grace of God, I found the NIH trial and have had such great success with it. For me, Cisplatin side effects are still haunting me and I have been off it for over 3 years. I still have severe neuropathy in my feet and tinnitus in my ears. I enjoyed my chemo holidays and I hope your husband will regain strength to enjoy his as well….prayers to you and your husband.
    Melinda

    #83870
    marions
    Moderator

    Jan……it explains the rationale of the physicians halting chemo. Ultimately the question arises – chemo – benefits – side effect – vs. quality of life. Fingers are crossed for your husband to regain his strength and for the August appointment to shed more light on the situation.
    Hugs,
    Marion

    #83869
    janbee
    Member

    They didn’t run tumor markers, only the blood counts. They are pretty bad. After receiving 2 units of blood, they hardly budged. He has very low white and red counts, and problems with platelets. Hematicrit also remains very low. There were low markers after almost every count except his bilirubin, which was high but not nearly so much as I’ve seen in the past. I believe his bone marrow has taken a pretty powerful hit. Also the CT scan didn’t show that we’ve made remarkable progress considering the health investment we’ve made with the chemo. We have another appointment with Onc on Aug 27 to see where we go from here.

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