Surgery for stage 4 intrahepatic CC

Discussion Board Forums General Discussion Surgery for stage 4 intrahepatic CC

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  • #59500
    lainy
    Spectator

    Dear TS we really do understand and sending you good vibes and lots of juju! Once you are satisfied, even if it means another opinion, and a game plan is in place, everything changes for the better and the fright turns to fight!

    #59499
    tschildren7
    Member

    Thank you all for getting back to me! I really have tried to be assertive at my dad’s appointments; my mom jokes that Dr. Friedman (the oncologist) must dread seeing me sitting there with my notebook! At the appointment on Tuesday, I’ll definitely try to get some straight answers as far as the CT result specifics…I have the feeling it’s now or never as far as the possibility of resection goes.

    Pam, I’ve thought about my anger towards the oncologist–I know I am angry in general because cancer just sucks…but I really feel he tap-dances too much. I can’t tell if it’s because he doesn’t know some of the answers or if he can’t be that straight with my parents. Either way, I leave feeling very unheard. If the CT isn’t good, and Pittsburgh won’t operate, I need a new game plan. Either Fox-Chase or CTCA maybe.. they are both in the Philly area. I just hope with all my heart that surgery is now possible.

    I’ll let you know how Tuesday goes, and thank you again for all your kindness!

    #59498
    lainy
    Spectator

    Good Morning TS. I am so relieved that you didn’t take my posts as being too upset FOR you. Sometimes I let my emotions get in the way because I care so much. Thanks Pam and Marion. TS, can you gently tell your parents about this site and that a 2nd opinion was recommended if you don’t feel comfortable with your next visit? Good luck on everything.

    #59497
    marions
    Moderator

    tchildren….. I have been told that debulking may increase the chance that chemotherapy or radiation therapy will kill all the tumor cells. It may also be done to relieve symptoms. Don’t be afraid to ask questions. Most physicians welcome an inquisitive patient (or someone asking questions on behalf of the patient.)
    In re: to anticipatory grief: you must remember that with medical intervention survival times often times are extended way beyond what we fear might happen soon. Someone called it hope against hope; I call it keeping up the hope.
    Hang in there. The battle is still on.
    Hugs,
    Marion

    #59496
    pamela
    Spectator

    I would not put up with an oncologist that wouldn’t answer my questions and neither should you. I think in a nice way you could say that you have some questions that you don’t feel have been answered and ask him again about where the tumors are, and I would say when he is busily typing to him that you would prefer he look at you when he is speaking to you and to please listen. Boy, that would make me furious. You have to remember that you are your Dad’s advocate and if you don’t fight for him, nobody else will. Sometimes I think doctors just need a little slap upside the head (figuratively speaking) to be made aware that they are acting like a jerk. I’m sure if you pointed out to him that you weren’t happy with him that he would change his tune. If not, change doctors!! Before Lauren had cancer, I might not have said anything. Not any more. I ask questions whenever I have them and don’t back down until I am satisfied. I didn’t really care for Lauren’s oncologist at first, but after a while I realized the reason I didn’t like him was because some of the things he was saying was not what I wanted to hear. I now have come to really like him and I also have a deep respect for him. Best of luck for your Dad to be able to have surgery.

    Love, -Pam

    #59495
    tschildren7
    Member

    Now that I think of it, I’m not sure what Dr. Pingpank meant by that comment (that they are one of only two places that do this kind of surgery). I took it to mean that they will do resections along with “debulking” of areas where mets are.. but now i don’t know! If it were up to me, I would have gone to Fox-Chase in Philly for the chemo instead of staying in Lehigh Valley (where my parents live)–but my parents are so loyal, so trusting, and wouldn’t dream of going to someone else.

    I have struggled from the beginning with the lack of straight forward answers from the oncologist; I understand the need to be positive, but I have gone to all my dad’s appointments, notebook in hand, and I always leave frustrated. My dad had a CT at the end of December ( after 4 rounds of chemo)–the report had no mention of any mets, so I asked if that meant they were gone, shrunk, what? He couldn’t answer the question; he said he would check with the radiologist to see. He never called us back; at the next appointment, I asked if he had found out about the mets–he never followed up on it. I thought the absence of mets seen on a CT in September would have been a big deal….Honestly, I get so angry watching this guy busily type his notes and schedule the chemo instead of talking to us that I could just scream.

    Sorry…back to the possibility of surgery. If Dr. Pingpank (or Dr. Marsh) feel it’s worth taking a look (after looking at the new CT)they’ll schedule the laparoscopy. The resection can’t be done that way, but they would just continue and do the major surgery if they feel it’s doable (they said it would be about a 10-12 hour surgery!) They would remove the part of his small bowel that had mets attached; the CT in September showed mets to the small bowel and omentum. When we went to Pittsburgh in Jan, I thought we were going for the resection then; I was shocked when the surgeon said he wanted my dad to have at least 3-4 more rounds of chemo. He basically said that since the chemo was still having a positive effect, he didn’t want to interrupt that treatment before it was totally exhausted.

    So–two hurdles to cross. First, the surgeon has to look at this new CT and feel it’s worth taking a look; second, once he looks inside, decide to attempt the resection/debulking. I am so worried I can’t seem to focus on anything else. This disease is freaking awful.

    Thank you for your help and concern–I so appreciate your input!

    #59494
    lainy
    Spectator

    Ah, Susie, thanks for that information.

    #59493
    wallsm1
    Spectator

    UPMC can do laparoscopic liver resections in some cases. I think that is what they meant when they said they are only one of 2 hospitals that do the surgery.
    http://www.upmc.com/Services/liver-cancer-center/treatments/surgical-resection/Pages/minimal-invasive.aspx

    I had a hepatectomy at UPMC by David Geller, but it was not laparoscopic. He is excellent. So is Dr Marsh. I do not know Dr Pingpank.

    Please let me know if you have any questions.
    Best of luck!

    Susie

    #59492
    lainy
    Spectator

    A PET or CT should show METS after all these months without having a LAP. When were his last Scans? I would get a copy for yourself and ask the ONC again, EXACTLY what is going on. Take someone with you and make notes so that you are all hearing the same things. Ask questions. He needs to know and you need to know.
    I go to an Oncology Office of 8 ONCs (another type of rare Cancer) and they are rated tops here in Phoenix. That does not mean they are all Docs I would go to for a rare Cancer. My husband’s ONC who was also my ONC just retired and I got a new kid on the block. I have had 1 visit with him and my gut is telling me something. I will do one more visit and if I am hot comforatable, I will switch. Point being, that you can be with the best, recommended by the best, but if you feel anything uncomfortable at all it’s time for a 2nd opinion. We are big believers in that.
    One more thing, why are they removing part of the bowel?

    #59491
    tschildren7
    Member

    Thanks for getting back to me! The laparoscopy would be just to look around first to see where the mets are–I neglected to say that my dad’s CT in Jan. didn’t show the mets (they were there in Sept). I found this surgeon accidentally–I was looking for someone who might do intraperitoneal chemo since his mets were in the abdominal cavity and no where else. The surgeon called back and actually said he’d consider him for resection.

    You’re right–I was thinking the same thing–how often has he done this surgery for CC? But he is a colleague of Dr. Marsh, and I sent his stuff to him also, and he said my dad would be in good hands with Dr. Pingpank….If they take a look via laparoscopy, and he felt the resection/debulking was doable at that point, they would just continue and do the resection. As far as his main tumor, I have no idea exactly where it is—just that it’s intrahepatic, that it’s by the ducts of the left lobe (left lobe severely atrophed and right has taken over function). I also don’t know size–the oncologist is very vague when I ask specific questions!!

    #59490
    lainy
    Spectator

    P.S. I just looked him up and while he has high grades his specialty is Malignant Mesothelioma. I would ask how many CC patients he has treated.

    #59489
    lainy
    Spectator

    Dear TSchildren7, the best advise I can give you is to get a second opinion. When you talk about the surgery I take it you mean a resection? If so there are quite a few hospital that do it and I don’t understand why the Doc would say what he did! I also don’t understand why the laparoscopy as I have not heard of it being done on our site as the surgery is too big for that.
    I am very sorry but things here do not make sense to me. IF the tumor is blocking the bile duct why are they not stenting? If the proper tests have been done a Laparoscopy should not have to be done and the Surgeon would know that. Sorry again, I am all over the place here but bottom line is….a SECOND opinion in my humble opinion.

    #6591
    tschildren7
    Member

    I haven’t posted for a while, but my 72 y/o dad was diagnosed with intrahepatic cc with mets to small intestine and omentum last September. He’s had 8 rounds of chemo (gemzar + cisplatin); and just had a CAT scan this past Friday. We saw a Dr. James Pingpank at UPMC in Pittsburgh in January who said that he would do a laparoscopy after my dad had at least 3 more rounds of chemo. So… we’ve arranged to have the scan sent right out to him and are hoping he’ll agree to go in and take a look.

    I always read/hear that, once there are metastases, surgery isn’t possible. Yet this surgeon is considering a resection with debulking (taking out the omentum and part of the bowel). Has anyone had this procedure? The surgeon said that UPMC is one of only 2 places in the country that do this surgery (of course, I forgot to ask where the second is!), yet I never see anything posted about this. I did see that someone had a resection done by Dr. Wallis Marsh (also at UPMC) and was doing well.

    My dad has hung in there so well with all this–maintained his weight, keeps busy…he still eats almost everything but seems to have pain when he eats things that are too fatty (makes sense since the main tumor is blocking the bile duct). No one has ever mentioned radiation, chemoembolization, stenting (he never had jaundice)–this disease seems to present a little differently with everyone, and that makes it even more confusing.

    Thank you for any info on this question. I appreciate all the words of support and kindness given on this site. Someone said in one of the posts to remember to “live in the moment in the face of anticipatory grief”–that is the absolute best advice but also sometimes the most difficult to follow. I have to try and live that way because thinking ahead will make me crazy.

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